Saint Vegas Community

Question #2 - Heaven

2009-05-29T13:39:00.000-07:00

We don’t talk too much about heaven at CLC; what happens when we die, and what is heaven like?

[There is a second question on heaven below.]

This is a great question, and, to be honest, it convicts me as a pastor.

1) Sometimes, we don’t talk about heaven because of excesses in the past.

In many of the religious revival movements in American history, heaven became the sole focus of preaching and evangelism. The message was accept Jesus and you’ll go to heaven. Now, that’s true, but it’s a pretty limited view of salvation. This focus caused some Christians to overlook the oppression and suffering of others. The pendulum then swung the other direction in movements that ignored heaven in favor of dealing solely with earthly problems. Balance is certainly needed. I believe we can be heavenly minded and earthly good at the same time. Therefore, as Christians, we see that the Gospel promises new life both in the hereafter (in heaven) and TODAY (in this life).

2) Heaven is where (or the realm in which) God dwells and those closest to him

Sometimes, the word "heaven(s)" just means sky in the Bible, but other times the Bible is clearly speaking of the place where God dwells. “Thus says the Lord: ‘Heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool,’” (Isa 66:1). In the book of Revelation, John receives glimpses of heaven and sees again and again the throne of God. Note the difficulties of speaking about heaven since its greatness is a mystery; it is more than just some people sitting on clouds strumming harps.

3) As Christians, when we die, we meet Jesus in Heaven.

When we die, our soul (the immaterial, spiritual part of our being) is separated from our body (the material, earthly part of our being). Our soul goes to heaven immediately to be with Jesus while our body goes in the ground. We know this from the Scriptures: Jesus tells the thief on the cross, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise” (Lk 23:43). Also, see Phil 1:23-24; Acts 7:59. At the final judgment, our soul will be brought together with our resurrected bodies (Jn 5:28-29; Jn 11:24; Job 19:26; cf. 1 Cor 15) and those who died with faith in Christ will enter into a new heaven and a new earth where God will dwell perfectly with us forever (cf. Rev 4; Rev 21). Thus, “the view of heaven in the Bible is essentially a redeemed creation, free of sin, death, and the curse, where we live together with Jesus in our physical bodies in God’s physical creation” (Driscoll, Vintage Jesus 151).

4) Heaven will not be boring.

Friedrich Nietzche wrote, “In heaven all the interesting people are missing.” There is a popular misconception that heaven will be boring (check out the clip from the Simpsons where they contrast Protestant and Catholic Heaven; very funny, but hard to find for copyright reasons). Fun is not prohibited; the only thing that won’t be in heaven is sin, sickness, evil, and death. Though I know that we will get to worship God for all eternity (and not to some old, grey-haired pastor’s wife banging out a boring hymn on an out-of-tune organ at 60 beats per minute), there is plenty that is a mystery about heaven.

Can you still believe in God but not be sure about “heaven?”

From your question, it seems you do believe in God but aren’t sure about heaven, so it is certainly possible. In fact, it’s not illogical either (that’s my nice way of saying, “Don’t worry; you’re not crazy”). I would figure that you have had experiences of God during your life that have made God very real to you. You can point to particular events, prayers, thoughts, experiences and can see God at work. In this way, believing in God isn’t a broad leap of faith; you know in some deep fashion that he is real and that he loves you. Heaven seems far more distant. You’ve never seen heaven. You have no empirical experience of heaven, and so it seems less real. Now, I could be way off, but that’s where I think you might be coming from. Here’s my encouragement for you as you struggle with this doubt:

1) Think about Jesus’ resurrection and the lives it transformed. Would you be willing to be martyred if this was all there is?

2) Think of our common longing for perfection and eternity. When we watch the news, we know something isn’t right with the world and we know of the impermanence of the world. Our God loves us so much that he will restore and redeem everything.

3) Meditate on the promises of Jesus concerning heaven and the testimony of the New Testament.

4) Think of how many people have had near-death experiences. For me, and you’re welcome to disagree, it is such a prevalent experience that I doubt that it can all be traced back to the random firing of neurons as the body is dying.

5) Meditate and pray about the reality that God loves you and came to earth to die and be raised from the dead so that he can spend eternity with you.

I don’t pretend that these suggestions are a magic pill that will erase doubt, but, honestly, they are some of the first places I turn when I have doubts about heaven and an afterlife. I hope this is of help; if I have missed the point, or you would like more clarity please let me know.

Stoops

Question #1 - The Bible

2009-05-20T12:27:00.000-07:00

Do I have to take EVERYTHING in the Bible as completely literal? I find certain parts hard to believe but can usually find a valuable figurative message in all of it.

[Disclaimer: I want to dignify all of your questions with a full answer. I know that they may be a little lengthy, but if you are like me, I’ve grown tired of simple, one-word answers for questions that are very complex. For all of the questions I will approach, I believe that I have come to rational and biblical conclusions, but I encourage you to examine them for yourself and test them in prayer and in the reading of Scripture. Also, these answers are not necessarily the views of Community Lutheran Church, Las Vegas.]

This is a great question that centers on how we should interpret the Bible. For some conservative groups, if you don’t read the Bible “literally” then you are a hippie, relativist who doesn’t believe in truth. For some liberal groups, if you read the Bible “literally” then you are considered a close-minded, bigoted fundamentalist. Battle lines have been drawn around this issue of Biblical interpretation. I hope to move between the extremes to articulate some thoughts on biblical interpretation. I will state a basic belief, give some explanation as to its bearing on our question of interpretation, and then state the main point I’m trying to make.

1) The Bible is a diverse “book.”

The Bible is a collection of 66 books, written in three languages, over 1,500 years by various authors to various audiences. Almost every genre of literature is covered in the pages of Scripture: narrative (Genesis, Exodus, 1 & 2 Samuel, the Gospels, Acts, etc.), short story (Ruth, Esther), legal document (Leviticus), lyrical poetry (Psalms, Lamentations), erotic love poetry (The Song of Songs), letters (Romans, etc.), apocalyptic prophesy (Revelation), and many more. Think back to English class…did you interpret a poem the same way you interpreted a short story? No, understanding the genre of writing is key to understanding what the author is trying to tell us. After all, how does one read poetry “literally” when it is filled with metaphor and simile? Likewise, Genesis 3:8 says that God walked in the garden, but we know that God is spirit (John 4:24) and hence could not be literally walking. The author is using a human analogy of walking to tell us that God was present in the garden. On the other hand, the narrative text of the Gospels tells us that Jesus literally rose from the dead. He had his disciples touch his literally resurrected body (Luke 24: 40). I would interpret this as historically accurate and hence read this “literally.”

The Point: The Bible contains a variety of genres that must be interpreted within their own context. This means that some times you will read something literally and sometimes you will not.

2) The Bible is inspired and is to be taken seriously, even if not literally.

Before I ever read the Bible, I thought it was a bunch of man-made myths, and I really could not read more than a page of the Bible without falling asleep. Then, when God gave me a new heart with new desires for him, I had a desire to read the Scriptures. I now believe, as 2 Timothy 3:16 states, that “all Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness.” I believe the Bible to be inspired not only because it testifies to it, but also because I find it improbable that human beings came up with it out of thin air. I would have come up with salvation through eating chicken wings and drinking beer, rather than salvation through a crucified and risen Messiah because of the separation from God caused by my sin. The Bible is inspired; therefore, we should take it seriously, even when we don’t read it “literally.” The classic example for me is Matthew 5:29-30 where Jesus teaches that if our hand causes us to sin then we should cut it off. When I teach this passage, people always respond, “Well, obviously no one can follow this literally” and then move on to the next passage. Yes, Jesus doesn’t want you to literally cut off your hand, but what he does want is to convey the seriousness of sin and the grace possible in repentance.

The Point: Just because the passage cannot be taken literally, does not mean that it should not be taken seriously.

3) Historically, church fathers have read the Bible in literal and non-literal ways.

Irenaeus (130-200) read certain passages literally, but read others like “treasure hidden in a field” (Matthew 13:44). Clement of Alexandria (150-215) and Origen (185-254) both read many passages allegorically. Augustine (354-430) used mainly literal interpretations, but also utilized allegorical ones. In the Middle Ages, interpreters developed a fourfold approach to reading the Bible: 1) literal – showing what God did; 2) allegorical – showing what at surface level God hid; 3) moral – revealing what believers should do; 4) mystical – showing the future heavenly life. Thomas Aquinas (1225-1274) and the Protestant Reformers placed more emphasis on the literal interpretations.

The Point: A bunch of people smarter than me have read the Scriptures in a variety of ways. There is some freedom in how we interpret as long as our interpretations are based on the text.

4) The hard to believe parts are sometimes to be taken literally and sometimes not.

There are many instances in the Scriptures that are hard to believe. For instance, the Bible teaches that God came to earth, born of a virgin, and lived a sinless life to rise from the dead. That’s tough to believe, but the Bible presents it in literal terms, and I believe it in literal terms. Jesus was a historical person who is literally God (not metaphorically, not just a divine teacher, etc.). Now, other parts that are hard to believe do not necessarily have to be taken literally. One can comprehend the meaning of the grace of God as it is portrayed in the book of Jonah without believing Jonah was literally swallowed by a fish. This is not to say Jonah was not swallowed by a fish, but rather that this is relatively unimportant for us to grasp the overall thrust of this short story. Likewise, the Bible invites us through analogy, metaphor, and simile to take non-literal approaches when they are warranted.

The Point: No, you do not have to take EVERYTHING in the Bible as completely literal. We read, pray, and discuss to interpret the hard to believe parts to know whether or not it is essential to read them literally.

Personally, I read the Bible...
1) Contextually – Every verse of Scripture appears in a particular context. We often get in trouble when we read verses out of context. What is the literary context, the historical context, and the context of the passage in terms of the entire book? Also, I allow Scripture to interpret Scripture; thus, I interpret difficult passages in light of clearer passages.
2) Christologically – The Bible is a story centered around Jesus Christ. The Old Testament prophesies and anticipates Jesus (Luke 24:27) and the New Testament testifies to the revelation of Jesus as the Messiah and his life, death, and resurrection. Thus, I read the Bible as a unified meta-narrative about God’s rescue mission in Jesus for a fallen humanity to save us and shower his love and grace upon us.
3) Communally – As we interpret Scripture, it is advantageous to be discussing it in community with other Christians. This can be a check against way-out-there interpretations and also helps clarify the real life application of a biblical text. Additionally, we can be in conversation with the community of all the saints throughout the generations. How did Jerome, Augustine, Luther, Calvin, and Stoops read this passage?

For another framework for reading the Bible, pick up Dr. Mark Wickstrom’s book The Gospel of Grace either on Amazon or in the Community Lutheran Church bookstore.

I hope and pray that as we read the Scriptures together, God will reveal Jesus by the power of the Holy Spirit to each one of us.

Stoops

2009-02-05T13:39:00.000-08:00

Before the Sermon on the Mount (Sept 23)

2008-10-01T10:18:00.000-07:00

When we met together on September 23rd, we had a whirlwind introduction to the Gospel of Matthew and the context leading up to the Sermon on the Mount. Here are the highlights:

Matthew begins his Gospel with a genealogy. Even though we might want to skip over it, the genealogy actually has some importance. The genealogy shows 1) Jesus was Jewish (son of Abraham) 2) Jesus was the Messiah (son of David) 3) Jesus had some “questionable” relatives in his past. Following the genealogy, the birth story shows us that Jesus’ mission is to save God’s people and that he is “Immanuel” (God with us). As we study the Sermon on the Mount, it will be important to remember that Jesus is with us and empowers us to live out what we will read.

Although there’s lots of exciting material, let’s fast forward to the end of Matthew 4. After his baptism, Jesus has begun to preach (“Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near.”), called his disciples, and has begun to heal. Most historians believe that Jesus’ miracles and healings were what first drew the crowds to hear his teaching. Have you experienced a miracle or a blessing that made you more eager to listen to God? On a related note, isn’t it interesting that many people come back to church after they have children?

In the coming weeks, as we continue through the Sermon on the Mount, I encourage you to always ask about application. How does this verse or passage affect my life? How do I live this passage out? How can I ask for God’s grace to empower me in living this out?

Stoops

Who are we as Christians? (Sept 16)

2008-09-26T11:50:00.000-07:00

So...who are you? How do you answer that question? Is it what you do, is it what you drive, is it where you live, is it your bank account, is it your race, is it the group to which you belong? Who are you?

Some churches and campus ministries that I’ve been involved with insist that our fundamental identity is a sinner. No matter what we do, say, or believe, we will always be nothing more than a sinner. I’ve seen despair set in for some devoted Christians who feel caught in never being anything more than “a sinner.” They feel there’s no hope in overcoming their sins. Now, this is true: we are sinners; we miss the mark all the time, and can’t do any better by our own efforts. But is that the whole story? Is that our whole identity?

Some of us have read 1 Corinthians, but most of us know that it was a case of “Christians Gone Wild.” There were some crazy things going on in the church in Corinth (stuff that would make the ‘church ladies’ blush). Nevertheless, when Paul is writing to this church, he calls them “saints.” The Greek word for a saint is hagios, which means “holy one.” So even though the Christians in Corinth are sinning like it’s going out of style, they are still “holy ones.”

Christians everywhere are “holy ones,” even when we fall short of God’s glory. You and I are “holy.” Why? When God looks at us, he sees Christ, because we are “in Christ.” We are being remade. We are a “new creation!” This means we can live a new life with a new primary identity, “saint.”

Who are we? We are “holy ones” loved by God, forgiven through Jesus Christ, and empowered in the Holy Spirit!

Stoops

[We read Romans 3:21-24 and Rob Bell’s Velvet Elvis, pages 138-143, for this study.]

Last Week at Saint Vegas

2008-09-16T11:21:00.000-07:00

Howdy Everyone,

As promised, I'll be posting some of the Bible study material on this blog a week after we cover it.

Last week we looked at two metaphors for the life of a Christian: the "spiritual journey" and the "race." If you didn't join us here is the material we covered:

“Spiritual Journey”

What do you think of when you hear this phrase?

How does this phrase relate to you and your life?

Where are you? Lost in the wilderness (cf. grumbling Israelites) or in the promised land or somewhere in-between?

[Digression: Here, I shared a little about my story and where I come from in my interpretation of Scripture.]

Where are you going?

“Race”

1 Corinthians 9:24-27

What specific elements of a race does Paul cite? What does his metaphor mean?

Have you thought about the Christian life like this before?

What do you like or not like about this metaphor? What are the good things and bad things about this metaphor?

Hebrews 12:1-3

How does verse 2 relate to verse 1?

What does the author of Hebrews feel is important to convey about the life of Jesus?

Do you ever “grow weary” (vs. 3)? When and why?

How does a “race” differ from a “journey”?

How might thinking about your life as both a journey and a race be beneficial?

I hope you will join us tonight for more Bible study and discussion. Also, check back soon as I will be posting some musings on various topics in the coming weeks in addition to posting the Bible study material.

Stoops

The Stoops Arrives

2008-09-11T10:28:00.000-07:00

Howdy Everyone,

I'm Michael Stoops, the new intern pastor at Community Lutheran Church.

I want to use this blog more than in the past. Posting material after each of our Bible studies will allow us to ponder over what we learned from the Bible and from each other. I also hope to add my own ponderings from time to time (I'm a pastor and, hence, long-winded by nature). Please utilize the ability to leave comments to continue the conversation. And here's why that is important:

In Jesus' world, it was assumed that you had as much to learn from the discussion of the text as you did from the text itself. One person could never get too far in a twisted interpretation because the others were right there giving her insight and perspective she didn't have on her own. Jesus said when he was talking about [his followers interpreting the text] that "where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them."

Community, community, community. Together, with others, wrestling and searching and engaging the Bible as a group of people hungry to know God in order to follow God.

- Rob Bell, Velvet Elvis pages 52-53

This is my hope for this year: to be a community that is "hungry to know God in order to follow God."
To be a community that welcomes new voices to the conversation.
To be a community that loves others.
To be a community that loves Jesus.

Stoops

Summer Calendar!

2008-05-29T14:00:00.000-07:00

Hot fun in the summertime! Hope everyone finds something that they're excited about! Don't forget, if you have suggestions, additions, helpful hints, to email colin@clclv.org

JUNE

JULY

August

Halloween Bowling!

2007-10-29T11:51:00.000-07:00

We're going bowling for Halloween! There are two plans in action that'll make for a great time together. Can't wait to see you there!

College Age Bible Study – We’re going to meet at ReJAVAnate by 7pm on Tuesday night. From there, we’ll head over to Sunset Station’s bowling alley. – 7pm, bowling, Sunset Station, College Age and all invited

ON TUESDAY, instead of Bible Studies led by Laura and Allison, a group will meet at Community Lutheran Church at 7PM to put together the elements of our Saturday Selah service. We will be cutting and stapling and drawing and writing in chalk. We’ll be making a video of Saint Vegas style commuion for upcoming Selah services. Anyone who wants to be creative is invited! We’ll be in room 114. – 7PM, CLC 114, let’s make selah happen

ON WEDNESDAY, for Halloween, we’ll have dinner and go bowling, COSTUMES OPTIONAL! We’ll meet at 6PM in the plaza by Sunset Station and go for dinner at Pei Wei or Chipotle or Coldstone. We’ll head to the lanes at Sunset Station at 7:30. – dinner at 6pm, bowling at 730, halloween celebration

NEW GROUPS!

2007-10-03T10:37:00.000-07:00

Starting October 9^th there will be, not one, but THREE Bible Studies for young adults!

Samantha Anderson will lead a college age group that is asking “Questions for God.” Who is Jesus? Where does the Bible come from? Who wrote the Bible? Why should I care? Bring questions, bring conversation, we’re going to dig in. Tuesdays at ReJAVAnate at 7pm.

Laura Bower will lead a study that is looking at Jesus and social justice. Jesus led the way in recognizing the human dignity of women in the ancient world, of the poor, of those on the fringes and Jesus calls us to follow his example in our own lives.

Allison Glick will lead a study on Experiencing God: How to live the full adventure of knowing and doing the Will of God by Henry Blackaby. It’s a great book for discipleship that calls us to deepen our relationships with God and our community. It challenges us to allow our relationship with God be lived out daily, everywhere we go. There are copies in the gift shop. See the book on amazon (www.amazon.com/gp/product/0805401970).

What kind of group?

2007-10-01T11:16:00.001-07:00

What kind of small group is Saint Vegas? How do we want to engage the larger congregation at CLC? We have a lot of opportunities to be involved, but some just don't speak to us as well as others do. When it comes down to it, we need we need the things that feed us as a group spiritually AND we also need to have discerning hearts that know when God is leading and guiding us to grow. We've been taking a look at the identity of Saint Vegas in recent weeks. We've asked who we are as a group. And, we've begun testing and trying out whether the core values we have been assuming are really the same as the ones that feed us spiritually.

The group bringing artistic contributions to Selah have some important discoveries to share. We are a strong and vibrant group that is interested in growing individually and as a group in our faith walks. We are interested in giving back to our community and congregation. We are interested in living the Gospel in our daily lives and, occasionally, in extraordinary ways. How can we be a dedicated group of young adults who continues to grow these gifts?

Next in Saint Vegas

2007-09-28T13:41:00.000-07:00

Greg Davis is going to be with us on Tuesday in Bible Study! We're going to talk about new ways that are available for us to get involved through the Saturday night Selah service. We're also going to talk about new options for Bible Study as we get into the fall.

See you Tuesday at 7pm.

A new opportunity for Saint Vegas!

2007-09-19T14:26:00.000-07:00

Saint Vegas has been invited to shake up Selah, on Saturday nights at 6pm!

Saint Vegas has been invited to provide leadership, vision, and new ideas. We welcome all to come as we explore and present the discovery that we can live out the exciting possibilities of an active, visual and artistic Christianity!

In the upcoming weeks we will wonder with Selah:

What is Freedom?

What does it mean to be Free in Christ?

Questions from Bible Study

2007-09-19T14:19:00.000-07:00

Music Video

Krystal Meyers – Fire

http://music.christianpost.com/media/media_library.htm

Matthew 5:13-15 - "You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled by men."

"You are the light of the world. A city on a hill cannot be hidden. Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house.”

· This text encourages Christians to act as examples of faith, witness and love (etc.) to their neighbors. How does it apply to your walk with God? Your relationships?

· The city on a hill has been used to describe everything from great universities to ancient Athens to Jerusalem to Utopian dreams of what a city or community could be like. How can a Christian community be called to live as a city on a hill?

· How can the idea of a City on a Hill be applied to Saint Vegas?

This is what we saw when we visioned

2007-09-13T14:31:00.000-07:00

When is Saint Vegas?

· Every Sunday night at 7pm

What is Saint Vegas?

· It is a place to experience God through the arts, God’s Word, through service and the elements.
· It is a unique forum where you can experience God on your own terms.
· It is open to ALL people. It seeks the fringes and the freaks.
· Saint Vegas is a worship experience.
· Saint Vegas is the people that drive it.

Who is Saint Vegas?

· A rotating leadership core (to raise up new leaders)
· All of Saint Vegas sharing their gifts, their experience and discovery of God in the world

What have we like that we have been doing?

· Communion
· Stations
· Music
· Elements that were visual, dramatic, danced, personal and participatory.
· Prayer (stations, group, etc.)
· Plays, skits, dancing
· Flexibility and creative organization. Movement and fluid parts within the service.

What do we hope for?

· A move out of the church building
· Promotion of Saint Vegas within our church through photos, skits and AV media
· Publicity for Saint Vegas outside of the church
· More social ministry and outreach within the group
· A welcoming Saint Vegas for those leaving high school and in college
· A Saint Vegas that is about the arts and for people who love the arts
· A Saint Vegas that welcomes people on the fringes

Welcome, Colin!

2007-09-12T06:31:00.000-07:00

We welcome new Saint Vegas guru, Colin Grangaard. Reach him: colin@clclv.org

Voices of Faith

2006-08-09T16:38:00.000-07:00

The new series Voices of Faith has kicked off! This week we welcome Daren Libonati from the Thomas and Mack Center. Join us!

We are...

2006-07-10T12:10:00.000-07:00

Join us for our new series...
Old posts found at http://saintvegas.blogspot.com